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Tuesday, January 29, 2008

Revelation Chapter 8, Vision 3, part 1 - Trumpets 1-4.

VISION 3: - THE SEVEN TRUMPETS.

Study 1: - Revelation 8:2,6-13. Trumpets 1-4.


INTRODUCTION.

“Now that the seven seals have been broken we would expect to see the End, the reading of the scroll, but the scroll simply drops out of sight” (Ladd).

However what we now see could be considered to be one of two things:

(i)The contents of the scroll. What we have already seen is the content of the seals themselves, now we see what is written on the pages, or

(ii) An entirely new vision. In this view each Seal opened a page of the scroll and what we read previously was the page thus opened. Thus when the seventh Seal is opened the scroll is fully visible and read. Thus there is no further revelation to be obtained from the scroll so the Trumpets are necessarily a new separate vision. Thus we would see Revelation 8:2 to be simply a stylistic literary way of connecting the Seals and Trumpets.

It is my feeling that (ii) is correct.

Even if we adopt view (i), that what we are about to read is the content of the pages of the scroll, then that does not imply that the events we are about to read occur after the events of the Seals in earth time. The opening of the seals would logically come before we could read the contents of the pages sealed thereby so logically we would read the seals before the pages. But to derive an implication from that that the events of the seals are necessarily prior to the events of the trumpets is unwarranted.

I have already discussed the fact that the seventh Seal (8:5), Trumpet (11:19) and Bowl (16:18) are clearly the same event in earth time and not a threefold repetition on earth of similar horrific events. I have also previously pointed out that certain events of one series are dependent on other events from another series that requires us to see these three series as being in some way concurrent in earth time. As we get to the relevant scriptures I will comments further on this.

Some interpreters insist that the trumpets follow the seals and the bowls follow the trumpets in earth time but the major problem with this view is that they have to have a final judgement three times. I feel the onus of proof is on them – it makes more sense to me to see 8:5, 11:19 and 16:18 as referring to the same event.

The trumpets are again a partial destruction; they are not the final judgement. Again, as with the Seals, I want to argue that they are not a direct judgement of God at all. The whole context of the portion of REVELATION that we are now engaged with is steeped in Feast of Tabernacles typology, hence of harvest motifs. The trumpets are a harvest, at least this is true of trumpets 1-6. "We reap what we sow" in the moral arena (Galatians 6:6-8) and God is not going to be mocked – this harvest will come in earth time in its full measure. The last generation will reap the full harvest of the sin of mankind for all generations. Where the Seals were the harvest of the curses of the broken covenant of Adam, the Trumpets are the harvest of the sins of mankind from Adam to the End. Thus they are not directly an act of God in judgement, rather they are the result of the inevitable operation of eternal law in the universe, the law of sowing and reaping.

However, having said this, we must acknowledge that God is at present restraining this harvest so that we do not ever reap the full harvest of our sins. What happens with the trumpets is that God removes this restraint of grace and for a short period the harvest of sin is full.

In a sense then the trumpets are designed to lead man to repentance. When the seventh trumpet comes there is no further chance for repentance as God has taken his throne, but until then God attempts to turn men's hearts by prefiguring the horrific nature of the coming eternal judgement which men face if they continue in sin. Sadly there appears to be little response.

INTERPRETATION.

REV 8:2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.

8:2 "the seven angels who stand before God"
A specific group is intended. The Bible says nothing else directly about them except to refer to their actions in REVELATION, but John expects that the reader knows who he is talking about.

In Jewish tradition there are several references to this group and they are named in tradition.

Tobit 2:15 - an angel identifies himself as "Raphael, one of the seven angels who stands in attendance on the Lord". They present the prayers of God's people.

Enoch 20 and 40 name them all - "Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Phanuel, Uriel, Saraquel, Remiel." Enoch identifies them as the archangels.

2 Esdras 4:36 c/f notes on Revelation 6:9-11 identifies this angel as an archangel, Jeremiel.

There may be more than eight archangels. Apparently Lucifer was one before he fell. It is possible that nine was the total number as nine is the number related to the Holy Spirit, and these archangels appear to have some sort of special relationship to the Holy Spirit.

Some of these are named in the Bible:

(i) Michael - Daniel 10:13,21; 12:1; Revelation 12:7 Jude 9 - He seems to have a special role as the protector of God's people.

(ii) Gabriel - Daniel 8:26; 9:21; Luke 1:18, 26 - He seems to have a special task of bringing Divine revelation to men.

Enoch 20 tells us they had special tasks in creation and ongoing functions in maintaining creation. Revelation indicates that they play a major role in the judgements of God at the end.


"seven trumpets" - better "war horns".

Trumpets are important in the OT and there is a rich symbolism.

(1) Numbers 10:1-10 - two silver trumpets. Silver speaks of redemption, so the trumpeter’s voice is always redemptive in content:

(a) For summoning the camp of God (v2) e.g. Joel 2:1,15.

(b) For breaking camp when moving on (v2).

(c) For war (v9) e.g. Joshua 6; Judges 7.

(d) For Feasts (v10).

(e) An alarm in times of danger.

(2) Leviticus 25:9. Blown on the Day of Atonement, New Years Day. In the jubilee year it signified release and redemption to the nation.

(3) Blown at the accession of the king to his throne, and hence during the feast of Tabernacles in rituals celebrating God's kingship - 1 Kings 1:34,39; 2 Kings 9:13; Psalms 47:5, 98:6 Numbers 23;21.

(4) Leviticus 23:21 - Blown at the daily sacrifices.

(5) There are three OT passages which talk of seven trumpeters which formed part of a ceremonial procession and two of these include a mention of an ark.

Joshua 6:1; 1 Chronicles 15:24; Nehemiah 12:41.

Caird (edited):
“The feast of trumpets par excellence was the autumn festival of Tishri 1, described in the Levitical code as a "remembrance day of trumpet blowing" (Leviticus 23:24). This was New Years day in the secular calendar. Tishri 1 became the first day of a great penitential season which culminated 10 days later at Atonement. Tishri 1 is therefore a day of judgement. The Talmud says it is a day when God judges the whole of mankind. The judgement itself is held in suspense until the Day of Atonement.”

The ten days are to typify the ten days journey from Sinai to Kadesh Barnea where Israel was to have entered into the Promised Land on the Day of Atonement.

Atonement is also the end of the harvest. The trumpets are to be seen as a warning that the harvest of the world is about to finish.

Points to note:

(i) Joshua 6 - seven trumpeters lead the congregation and the ark c/f Revelation 11:19. On the seventh day the seventh trumpet was blown and all seven blew together, the army shouted and the walls fell down. Jericho is typical of the future Babylon (Revelation 11:13).

(ii) The accession of the king to the throne, c/f the seventh trumpet of REVELATION.

(iii) An alarm - a call to repentance in the face of immanent judgement. C/f REVELATION 9:20ff. Therefore the trumpets, until the last one, are only a partial destruction, they are not the end, rather they are another God-given chance to repent.

The trumpet plagues are similar to the plagues of Egypt under Moses. Throughout ch 8-11 Exodus typology is heavily used, but in a different way to the rest of the NT.

The first four trumpets are all closely related to the same event and appear to describe the same event and its effects from different viewpoints.

The event which is the catalyst seems to be the expulsion of Satan and his forces from the mid heavens as recorded in REVELATION 12:7ff. In these four trumpets this event is described and an effect of it described on man's society.

This event seems to happen at the beginning of the last three and a half years of human history, so the effects are things which happen during this last 3 ½ years.

These four trumpets describe events in nature, but that is only to be seen as a surface meaning. The natural is a picture of spiritual events happening in man's society. The natural event is therefore only a visible sign of something more important.

1 Corinthians 15:46 “First the natural then the spiritual”.

This seems to be a key to understanding the relationship between physical events on the earth and spiritual events. What we are about to read describes apparently physical events on earth, but these events are only a sign that something more important is happening in the spiritual life of mankind.

The idea of something "coming down from the sky" is possibly intended to suggest to us that these events have a heavenly origin. They are in the plan of God.

Like the seals the trumpets are divides into a 4:2:1 sequence:

1-4 - affect the earth.

5,6 - affect man.

- An interlude. -

7 - affects man.

In a symbolic sense the first four trumpets are all talking about the same thing, and illustrating different aspects of it, namely the relationship of Satan to our atmosphere. He is, in this age, the prince of the power of the air.

8:7 The First Trumpet.

REV 8:6 Then the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared to sound them.

REV 8:7 The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.

c/f Joel 2:30 Exodus 9:23,24 Psalms 105:32.

The Exodus, or the first deliverance of God's people became a type for all of God's later deliverances. In Egypt hail spoiled the crops, now it is "hail and fire" (lightening?).

It is possible that this trumpet is the cause of the famine of the third seal. The Biblical kind of "grass" includes all cereals. The plague could be the result of catastrophic weather disturbance caused by nuclear war. Thus this event – the first trumpet – would be prior to the 3rd seal in earth time.

"1/3 of the earth...1/3 of the trees" - Which third is unknown.

It seems as if one third of the earth’s surface is devastated by this plague directly, while indirectly the rest of the world is also affected in that "all grass is burnt up". This seems to indicate that the air temperature of the world increases rapidly and markedly as a result of whatever causes this devastation. Though presumably localised to one continent the atmospheric changes are world-wide. The intensification of the heat of the sun in the fourth bowl (REVELATION 16:8,9) could be related to this.

Symbolism:

"trees" symbolise rulers of society c/f Isaiah 2:12-17.

"grass" symbolise the masses of humanity, the common people. Grass also speaks of prosperity as it includes the grain.

It seems as if the governments of the stable countries are put down somehow and prosperity, or wealth, is corrupted. The financial systems of the world will be destroyed. This is a great depression, which is possibly solved by the "wisdom" of Antichrist.

Possibly this points to the destruction of the Americas. At the moment they are the financial hub of the world, and North America is the world’s largest grain producing area. North America is also the seat of stable democratic government, and as such is held up by other nations as the ideal to strive for. If there was a totalitarian government aiming for world domination, then to succeed they would find it much easier by destroying the "defender of democracy". C/f notes on the seals.


8:8,9: The Second Trumpet.

REV 8:8 The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood,

REV 8:9 a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.


"a huge mountain burning with fire".

Is this a meteorite? Or is John describing the effects of nuclear devastation in the only way he could? John says it was "Like a mountain" not that it actually was. It could be an underwater volcano (Psalms 46:2 - "the mountains in the sea shake"). Or it could refer to underwater nuclear explosions, such as the destruction of nuclear submarines. Such explosions could conceivably begin a chain reaction in the oceans which could alter the composition of the seas.

"blood" symbolises Death. C/f 16:3 "of a dead man" i.e. poisonous.

1/3 of the seas are polluted to death.

C/f Exodus plagues, and REVELATION 11:6, the power given to the two witnesses. This could happen as the result of the Churches’ prayers.

Scientists have been telling us for years that if we continue on as we are the seas will soon be dead from pollution. The Bible tells us that the process is going to be sped up at one point.

Symbolism:

"Seas" symbolise the rebellious masses of humanity in the nations (REVELATION 17:15).

"Great mountain" symbolises a great political power.

Besides the destruction of America there are other political changes. Europe becomes dominant under the Antichrist and he dominates 1/3 of the earth stretching from England to Iraq. His capital centres on Babylon in Iraq. Under his rule, as we shall see, the Church is persecuted to death. It appears that in his kingdom there are no surviving Christians by the Second Coming (see notes on REVELATION 11). Hence we read that “1/3 of the ships” are destroyed.

"Ship" = ARGO (from Astrology), symbolises the Church.

The Church has not yet seen persecution like what it will see under Antichrist. He will be seven times worse than any previous despot (see notes on REVELATION 17).

8:10-11 The Third Trumpet.

REV 8:10 The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water-

REV 8:11 the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.

"a great star blazing like a torch"

A meteor? But how could it affect only clean water? Its effect is the poisoning of 1/3 of the world's water supply.

"wormwood" - i.e. poisonous. Wormwood is a tree that has the capacity to make water bitter, or poisonous. The death of those drinking the water is implied.

C/f Exodus 15:21ff - Marah - REVELATION is the reversal of this. Tradition has it that the tree Moses threw in was Wormwood.

Symbolism:

"Star" symbolises an angel - he has a personality, he is Satan.

"fell from heaven" Greek, Literally, "was cast down" c/f 9:1.

"rivers" symbolise the ordinary life of a nation, as is characterised by certain laws, principles, customs. "Fountains" are the source of these, i.e. family, Church, education, government. The sources are corrupted first, thus polluting the rest. The polluting doctrine is HUMANISM.

The image of the star has an astrological background. In mythology Venus, the morning star, tried to climb the walls of the city of the gods to make himself king of heaven. He was driven from heaven by the rising sun. This myth is given an historical application in Isaiah 14:12-20 where Venus = the Prince of Babylon, i.e. Satan. It is no coincidence that Babylon features here. Wormwood is simply the system of Babylon which is poisoning man's society. It is the Spirit of Antichrist.

Exodus typology continues. With each blow of the trumpet God says, "Antichrist let my people go."

8:12 The Fourth Trumpet.

REV 8:12 The fourth angel sounded his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night.

"1/3 sun, 1/3 stars... 1/3 of their light darkened".

Does this mean:

(i) Air pollution causing a blanking out of the sun,

(ii) c/f Matthew 24:22 "shortened" days, c/f Daniel 7:25 "to change the times". Does the 24 hour day become 18? A major change to the earth's rotation due to a nuclear blast tilting the earth on its axis.

Symbolism:

"1/3 stars" - 1/3 angels fell with Lucifer (Revelation 12:4).

"Light" speaks of man's spiritual awareness. This could indicate a growing inability to hear the gospel and respond.

Imagine the following scenario (a bit of sanctified imagination wont hurt):

Imagine that most USA military hardware had a secret “self destruct” mechanism built in that the operators are not aware of.

“Why?” you may ask.

Well, to stop captured weaponry being used against them in the event of war. Such a motivation would make sense.

How would it work?

Quite simple really. Hidden in the fuel tank of every piece of hardware could be a small but powerful explosive, enough to destroy the item in question.

This could be set off by a signal from satellite, the signal in turn coming from the Pentagon or White House. To activate the code would maybe involve the entering of 4 pin numbers known only to 4 men, the President, and the chiefs of staff of the Army, Navy and Air Force. When these 4 pins are entered they are given the choice of destroying one piece of hardware (presumably captured by enemy forces), or a collection of hardware in a certain geographical area, or even all American military hardware around the world –every military plane, ship, missile, tank, motorized gun, etc.

“Impossible,” you say.

But why? The technology is simple and could be with us today. There is nothing complex in what I have described.

Now let’s imagine the Antichrist manages to get 4 men into those key positions of power. At a set point in time, when he is ready to make a bid for world domination, he sends the word to his 4 men to push the “all” button at such and such a time on such and such a day.

The 4 do as they are told, flee the White House by helicopter to a point just out of the nearest airport, board a secular jet (i.e. it is safe) and leave with their families for Britain. 5 minutes after they cross the coast into the Atlantic every bit of American military hardware self destructs all around the world – every plane, helicopter, ship, submarine boat, tank, missile, motorized gun, etc.

It could happen! Very simply!

Of course the 4 think that in the new order they will be greatly rewarded, but they don’t realize that their usefulness to the Antichrist is over, and the same technology used to render the USA impotent in the face of the Antichrist can be used on them…

Their plane suddenly disappears mid-Atlantic from the radar screens.

The results of such a destruction would be dramatic:

  • Nuclear submarines exploding under water with their nuclear missiles. Large areas of sea are “turned to blood” (Trumpet 2). Fresh water supplies are also contaminated (Trumpet 3).
  • Air pollution all around the earth on a grand scale never seen before, the sun’s light is reduced to a murky haze. 1/3 of its light is gone (Trumpet 4).
  • There is an immediate international shortage of grain due to the fact that fireballs from the nuclear explosions burn up all grasses (Seal 3, Trumpet 1).
  • Millions die in the holocaust.
  • Millions die from radiation sickness over the following months (Seal 4).
  • Cancerous sores develop over millions more (Revelation 16:8-11).
  • The detonation of hundreds of nuclear bombs destabalises the earth’s crust and for the following few years there are massive earthquakes (Matthew 24). Half of California slips into the sea.

Of course the Antichrist is immediately occupied with establishing his rule throughout Europe and the Middle East (Seal 1) and ignores America for a few months. After all the sudden explosion of hundreds of land based nuclear warheads has left North America a bit of a desert waste. It has little chance of regrouping and being a threat to him.

However the surviving population of the USA, Canada and the rest of the Americas – north, central and south immediately recognize this disaster as the work of Antichrist and a major Christian revival results. Citizens arm themselves and prepare to repel any invaders, but there is no way they can do more than to defend themselves from invasion. They cannot take on the Antichrist in an attack mode because of lack of resources.

Meanwhile the financial hub of the Western world, which was New York, shifts - under Antichrist direction - to Babylon. The United Nations, the World Bank, IMF and similar organizations, now his pawns, go there too. Soon will follow the headquarters of the One World Religion…

It would be doubtful that many countries would dare to oppose Antichrist after seeing what happened to the USA.

Question: Why the emphasis on 1/3 throughout these trumpets?

Possibly because 1/3 of the Trinity was on the cross. This judgement is a testimony and a vindication of Christ. His victory is now complete, so judgement can be executed.

If the four trumpets speak of Satan's expulsion from heaven then 8:13 has great significance.

8:13 - Announcement of the three woes.

REV 8:13 As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: "Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!"

"Eagle", the enemy of the serpent. In astrology is Aquilla.

"midheaven" - where Satan presently has his kingdom and resists God's plan and intentions. From there he is expelled (REVELATION 12).With his expulsion the way is now clear for the angels of God to carry out God's work without interruption or hindrance. Hence the eagle/angel can proclaim God's victory.

c/f REVELATION 14:6,7.

c/f Exodus 19:4 - The eagle symbolises God's protection and deliverance of his people.

c/f REVELATION 12:14 - the same eagle protecting the Church.

Walvoord sees in the first four trumpets the following scenario:

(1) Food destroyed.

(2) Distribution crippled.

(3) Water supply crippled.

(4) Production hampered.

5 comments:

Bible Prophecy on the Web said...

Seven SEALS, Seven TRUMPETS, Seven PLAGUES -

Bible prophecy speaks of Seal, Trumpet, and Plague events. Trumpet events FOLLOW Seal events, FOLLOWED BY Plague events.

There are SEVEN Seals (Re.8:1), SEVEN Trumpets (Re.8:2), and SEVEN Last Plagues (Re.15:1).

SEAL events have not yet concluded. Seal events must conclude before TRUMPET events begin. The Seven Trumpets are GIVEN to sound at the Seventh, and final, SEAL (Re.8:2, Re.8: 6).

The Seventh TRUMPET is the Last Trump (Read 1 Cor.15:52, Re.10:7 below).


1 Cor.15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump (Re.10:7 below): for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed (1 Thess.4:16-17).

Re.10:7 But in the days of the voice of the SEVENTH (trumpet) angel, when he shall begin to sound the mystery of God (Eph.3:4, 9) should be finished (Dan.12:6-7) as he hath declared to the servants the prophets (Eph.3:3-10).

Six of the TRUMPETS must sound BEFORE the "last trump" sounds.

The “last trump” (1 Cor.10:52 above), the Seventh Trumpet (Re.10:7 above) is the “finish”.


Dan.12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the END of these wonders?

Dan.12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever (Re.10:6) that it shall be for a time, times, and an half (3 ½ years); and when he (the little horn - Dan.7:8) shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people (Dan.8:24, Re.11:3, Re.11:7), all these things shall be FINISHED (Re.10:7 above).


It is at the Seventh TRUMPET that we have the ascension (1 Thess.4:16-17 below).

1 Thess.4:16 For the Lord HIMSELF shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God (Re.10:7 above): and the dead in Christ shall rise first (1 Cor.15:52 above):

1 Thess.4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


The Seven Last PLAGUES cannot fall until the Plagues are GIVEN to fall (Re.15:1-2, Re.15:6-8, Re.16:1). The Seven Last Plagues are given to fall AFTER the entire body of Christ are in heaven.

The Seven Last Plagues will fall directly AFTER the Seventh TRUMPET (1 Thess.4:16-17, 1 Cor.15:52, Re.10:7, Dan.12:6-7 above).

The Seventh TRUMPET ascension occurs AFTER the three and a half years of tribulation under the beasts of Revelation chapter 13.

There are seven-years between the Sixth SEAL (Re.6:12-17) and the Seventh TRUMPET.



Patricia (ndbpsa ©) Bible Prophecy on the Web
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BibleProphecy

John Brough said...

Hi Patricia,
In reading your contributions it seems to me that a lot depends on whether or not the visions of Revelation as sequential, as you have argued, or concurrent, as I have argued.
If the visions are not sequential then, it seems to me, that a lot of your other time sequences begin to fall apart also.
In the blog text I have put forward several reasons why I think they run concurrently in time, none of these reasons have you attempted to debate. You have strongly stated your position, but really without offering an argument for proof, or any reason why my view is wrong. (By the way I like the fact that you believe things strongly. I was pastoring for a while and came to see that most Christians don’t believe anything very strongly – at least most believed nothing strong enough to die for! One guy, every time I said something he disagreed with, would say. “well other people have different opinions” – and this seemed to be his out from having to think through questions and take a stand. Very insipid!)

For this reason I want to state two of them again clearly to give you the opportunity of debating them. I think you need to address them in your thinking because if I am right in my assertions then much of your presentation is suspect. So here are my two points and some questions you need to answer arising out of them.

1. The end time wrath of God appears only on the Day of the Lord.

I need to clarify this.
Firstly, the word “wrath” is used in several ways in the Bible, but the context usually makes it clear as to whether it means the end time wrath of God or some other expression of his wrath. In the context of the end times “wrath” means “the final judgement of God poured out at the end of the age on rebellious mankind for their sins”.

In this sense the word is only used (when connected with a time reference) with the phrase “the day of the Lord”, or one of its parallel phrases (Day of God, that day, the day, the day of wrath, etc).
Normal principles of interpretation demand that we start with clear statements of scripture and move from there to more obscure references. The more obscure references must be “filled out” in meaning and detail by the clearer statements. This means that where the end time wrath is mentioned without a specific time reference we are compelled to assume it is referring to the day of the Lord.

I discovered this simple fact about the end time wrath by doing a simple word study on “wrath” using my trusty Youngs concordance several years ago. I presume you will have computer software and can do it much faster than I could back then (before computers were an everyday object). (Remember then, the “dark ages of thinking”. I date from way back then, before the ark.)

Secondly I need to define “the day of the Lord”. I should not have to but just in case we are on different pages on this I feel I should. The day of the Lord is that day when Christ comes in power and glory and defeats his enemies and sets up his kingdom. This is the day described in Matt 24:31, Rev 19 and many other references.

We know that the OT was not a complete revelation and we need to fill out details from the NT. When we compare the OT “day of the Lord” with the NT, we find the OT includes many events we would consider to be part of the millennium. This leads me to suggest that the phrase “the day of the Lord” does not mean a 24 hour day, but rather the word “day” is being used much as we would in English when we say, “In Hitler’s day”, or “In Jesus’ day”. Not meaning 24 hours but “the period of time that the person referred to was living”. The Hebrews used “day” in this sense – you can do a word study to find this out too if you want to.

So when I say “day of the Lord” I am not limiting myself to 24 hours but to a period of time that begins with the appearance of Christ and extends throughout his millennial rule. This is not something I want to debate but I just point it out along the way. Extreme literalism on the word “day” can get us into trouble. My point, however, is simply that the day of the Lord is an extended period of time, the length of which we don’t need to debate for our purposes now.

My main point here is that the end time wrath of God falls on the day of the Lord.

This means certain things:
(i) The day of the Lord is at the end of the tribulation so the tribulation is ended by the wrath of God falling but the tribulation does not contain the wrath of God. Hence we do not find “wrath” during the tribulation. The tribulation is not the wrath of God; it is a period of “tribulation” i.e. suffering. The wrath of God falls on the day of the Lord and not before and “wrath” is qualitatively different from “tribulation.”
(ii) When “wrath” is mentioned in connection with other end time events, meaning the “end time wrath” we can use that reference to “wrath” to tie those events into the “day of the Lord”. “Wrath” becomes a sort of shorthand way of referring to the day of the Lord. This is very handy when interpreting some difficult passages as will become clear as I work through Revelation.

2. The second point I have made concerns the phrase “there were lightnings, thunders, an earthquake, rumblings and heavy hail.” (or similar words)
This is repeated 3 times (Rev 8:5 – the 7th seal, 11:19 – the 7th Trumpet, 16:11-21 – the 7th bowl).
My point is that this is a threefold recording of the same event, thus the 7th of each series is actually the same event. I do not believe we are to read it as happening three times. Your sequential interpretation would demand that these three scriptures record three separate events.
In the blog text I argued for this from the Rabbinic principle of Gezera Shawa. But logic tell us it is so. This in itself tells us that the three series run concurrently and not in series.

Now let’s draw some implications from the text of Revelation using these two points.

1. The 6th seal, Rev 6:11-17. concludes with the cry, “Hide us from the One seated on the throne and the wrath of the Lamb. The great day of their wrath has come…”

The people alive on the earth at the time of the 6th seal are not ignorant of the coming judgement/wrath of God. The witness of the church has made sure of that. Rather they reject the (coming) Christ out of sheer sinful rebellion and even when they know this is God’s wrath starting to fall they will not repent. The 6th seal thus brings us right up to the start of the falling of end time wrath, the day of the Lord (Rev 6:11-17 says so!). There is no room (timewise) for 7 trumpets to follow after this. We are already at the end.

2. 8:1-5 the 7th Seal.
8:5 I have already commented on – that phrase is a sort of shorthand signature for the wrath of God, so we are here right at the end.

Question: Is 8:5 part of the 7th seal?
Answer: What else could it relate to? It is not part of the trumpets as the angels do not begin to blow the trumpets until 8:6. Thus in the context we are given we must identify it with the 7th seal – or see it as a totally independent prophecy, not part of the sequences of the seals or the trumpets. This second option does not seem likely to me. Revelation just does not have unattached isolated prophecies floating around in it. Everything is part of a series.

Question: Why is 8:2-4 there? It seems to interrupt the flow of the 7th seal.
Answer: Who knows why John wrote it like this. Maybe this is just exactly the order he saw things happen in his vision. It looks to me like another vision crashing in on top of the one he had been receiving. People who have visions say it is sometimes like this (I wouldn’t know as I haven’t had any but I don’t discount the experiences of others).

3. 11:15-18 The 7th Trumpet.

“the nations raged,
But your wrath came (past tense)”

The singing of this song is after the wrath of God has fallen. Other events sung about in this song – also in the past tense – indicate that it is all over bar the shouting. There is no room (timewise) here for 7 bowls to be poured out. I will comment more on this when I get to it in the blog text.

4. Rev 15. “bowls of God’s wrath, with them the wrath of God is (ended)”

“ended” may not be the best rendering here. Something like “filled up” would be better, meaning that these 7 bowls contain all of the wrath of God there is ever going to be poured out at the end of the age. None has been poured out before these bowls and none will be after. This is it – God’s wrath.

In my mind these scriptures blow the sequential theory out of the water.

So here are some questions:

1. Is the definition of the day of the Lord I have given correct?
2. Does the end time wrath fall only on the day of the Lord?
3. If so what does this mean for interpreting the time flow of events in Revelation if wrath is falling on the 6th and 7th seals and trumpets and the 7 bowls?
4. What does this do to the sequential theory?
5. How does it affect your other suggested sequences of events?

Happy thinking.
Blessings on you.
John.

Bible Prophecy on the Web said...

There is so much in this one post that it is very confusing to me to separate out what to speak on particularly when I am under time constraints. I will send you separate posts regarding the Day of the Lord and the Wrath of God which might offer clarity.


Patricia

Bible Prophecy on the Web said...

The Day of the Lord, the Sixth Seal

At the Sixth Seal, God will show His wrath (Re.6:16-17 below) to make His power known having endured with much longsuffering the wicked (Rom.9:22 below). The Sixth Seal is not to be confused with “the wrath of God”, the Seven Last Plagues. Saints of the most High will be in heaven before the Plagues are given to fall.

At the Sixth Seal, God will make known the riches of His glory on the righteous, those whom He has called, Jews and Gentiles alike (Ro.9:23-24 below).

A believe the Sixth Seal is the DAY of the Lord which comes as a thief in the night (1 Thess.5:2, Isa.2:19, Isa.13:8-11, Lk.21;25-27, 30 below).


Rom.9:22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Rom.9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Rom.9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


1 Thess.5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the DAY of the Lord (Isa.13:9 below) so cometh as a thief in the night (Acts 2:20, Joel 2:31, Jer.30:7, Re.6:17).


Isa.2:19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty (Re.6:16 above), when he ariseth TO SHAKE TERRIBLY THE EARTH (Re.6:14 below).

Isa.13: 8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. (Lk.21:26 below)

Isa.13:9 Behold, the DAY of the Lord (1 Thess.5:2 above) cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger (Isa.13:6), to lay the land desolate (Re.6:14 below): and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it (Re.6:15-16 below).

Isa.13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine (Re.6:12, Matt.24:29).

Isa.13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.


Lk.21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars (Acts 2:20, Matt.24:29, Joel 2:31, Re..6:12-13, Isa.13:10); and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Lk.21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken (Isa.2:19 above).

Lk.21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man (Dan.7:13) coming in a cloud WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY (Matt.24:30, Isa.2:19, Re.6:16).

Lk.23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us (Re.6:16 below).

Sixth Seal -

Re.6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the Sixth SEAL, and, lo, there was a GREAT EARTHQUAKE; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Re.6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Re.6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and EVERY MOUNTAIN (Ps.104:6) AND ISLAND WERE MOVED OUT OF THEIR PLACES (Isa.2:19 above).

Re.6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Re.6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of HIM THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE (Lk.21:27, Isa.2:19), and from THE WRATH OF THE LAMB (Re.6:17 below):

Re.6:17 For the GREAT DAY (1 Thess.5:2 above) of his wrath is come (Re.6:16, Rom.9:22 above); and who shall be able to stand (Lk.21:36)?



Patricia (ndbpsa ©) Bible Prophecy on the Web
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BibleProphecy

Bible Prophecy on the Web said...

The Wroth of the Dragon/the Wrath of God -

The three and a half years tribulation under the beasts of Revelation chapter 13 is the WROTH of the Dragon (Re.12:17, Re.14:12-13 below). The Dragon is angry with the woman (the church of God - 1 Cor.10:32, the living body of Christ Jesus - Col.1:24) and goes to make war with the remnant (the rest) of her seed (Matt.24:9, Re.13:1, Re.13:7, Re.13:11, Re.13:15, Dan.7:21, Dan.7:25).

The Seven Last Plagues are the WRATH of God (Re.15:1, 6, 7, 8, Re.16:1 below). The church does not face the Wrath of God (1 Thess.5:9). The Seven Last Plagues occur AFTER the Seventh Trumpet ascension (1 Thess.4:16-17).


Re.12:17 And the DRAGON (Re.12:9, Re.20:2) was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Re.14:12 Here is the patience of the SAINTS (Re.8:3-4): here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus (Re.12:17 above).

Re.14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven, saying unto me, Write BLESSED (Dan.12:12) ARE THE DEAD WHICH DIE IN THE LORD FROM HENCEFORTH (Re.16:6): Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.


Re.15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels HAVING THE SEVEN LAST PLAGUES; for in them is filled up the wrath of GOD (Re.15:7 below).

Re.15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, HAVING the seven plagues (Re.15:1 above), clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

Re.15:7 And one of the four beasts GAVE unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of THE WRATH OF GOD (Re.15:1 above, Re.16:1 below), who liveth for ever and ever (Dan.12:7).

Re.15:8 And the temple (Re.15:5) was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, TILL THE SEVEN PLAGUES OF THE SEVEN ANGELS WERE FULFILLED.

Re.16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple (Re.15:5) saying to the seven (plague) angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of THE WRATH OF GOD (Re.15:7 above) upon the earth.



Patricia (ndbpsa ©) Bible Prophecy on the Web
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BibleProphecy