REV 5:1 Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals.
REV 5:11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders.
REV 5:12 In a loud voice they sang: "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!"
A) INTRODUCTION.
REVELATION 5 is the fulfilment of Daniel 7:13,14, where the "son of man" is given the kingdom.
(for a discussion on this statement please refer to the comments at the end of this chapter)
This chapter introduces the main theme of the book, which is redemption. REVELATION is primarily an exposure of how redemption will be finally worked out in the history of man; so we must begin with a view of the legal standing of the earth, and of mankind. Hence in this chapter we see Christ the Redeemer, having paid the price of Redemption, now receiving back on behalf of mankind the title deed of the earth. The rest of the book of REVELATION is simply a disclosure of the terms of the sale and its redemption. The price of sale was death, the death of mankind. We are offered in REVELATION 5 the death of a substitute lamb, but for those that refuse this substitute we will see the results as the seals of the document are opened - be death on every hand.
(1) THE LEVITICAL LAW OF REDEMPTION.
Leviticus ch 25.
LEV 25:1 The LORD said to Moses on
I am going to give you, the land itself must observe a sabbath to the LORD.
vineyards and gather their crops.
sabbath to the LORD. Do not sow your fields or prune your vineyards.
that the seven sabbaths of years amount to a period of forty-nine years.
seventh month; on the Day of Atonement sound the trumpet throughout your
land.
land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you; each one of you
is to return to his family property and each to his own clan.
property.
do not take advantage of each other.
years since the Jubilee. And he is to sell to you on the basis of the number of years left for harvesting crops.
the years are few, you are to decrease the price, because what he is really
selling you is the number of crops.
LEV 25:17 Do not take advantage of each other, but fear your God. I am the
LORD your God.
and you are but aliens and my tenants.
provide for the redemption of the land.
property, his nearest relative is to come and redeem what his countryman
has sold.
prospers and acquires sufficient means to redeem it,
refund the balance to the man to whom he sold it; he can then go back to
his own property.
will remain in the possession of the buyer until the Year of Jubilee. It
will be returned in the Jubilee, and he can then go back to his property.
himself to you, do not make him work as a slave.
among you; he is to work for you until the Year of Jubilee.
to his own clan and to the property of his forefathers.
Egypt, they must not be sold as slaves.
one of your countrymen becomes poor and sells himself to the alien living
among you or to a member of the alien's clan,
LEV 25:48 he retains the right of redemption after he has sold himself. One
of his relatives may redeem him:
him. Or if he prospers, he may redeem himself.
himself up to the Year of Jubilee. The price for his release is to be based
on the rate paid to a hired man for that number of years.
share of the price paid for him.
compute that and pay for his redemption accordingly.
LEV 25:53 He is to be treated as a man hired from year to year; you must
see to it that his owner does not rule over him ruthlessly.
LEV 25:54 "`Even if he is not redeemed in any of these ways, he and his
children are to be released in the Year of Jubilee,
servants, whom I brought out of Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
In this chapter two saleable items are covered:
(i) Land - deals with a man's property, or inheritance.
(ii) People - deals with a man's freedom.
The Redemption of Property.
Leviticus 25:14-17
In ancient times it was considered that all of the land in a country belonged to the King. The people were only tenants who lived on the land by favour of the King. He gave land and took it away at will.
In Israel God was considered to be King, and under Joshua he divided the land (Joshua 14). This was an equal division - all men got the same. This patch of ground was to be a man's inheritance which he left to his children. It was also his livelihood, he could work it or lease it out to get an income.
The idea was to eliminate poverty, and the vast imbalances of wealth that occurred in other nations. To maintain this equality God instituted the laws of Redemption.
Why would a man sell his land?
(i) Debt.
(ii) Famine.
(iii) Choosing the city life.
(iv) A Tradesman might not retain his land.
(v) A waster might sell off his land to get ready cash.
When the land was sold in this way a title deed was drawn up recording the details of the sale. This deed was usually rolled into a scroll and sealed, an open copy was also made for reference. Only the Redeemer had the legal right to open the seal.
Setting the Price on the Land.
Leviticus 25:13-15.
PRICE = Value of an average year's crops
x the number of years left until the Jubilee.
The concept of covenant in the Bible is largely based on what has become known as SUZERAINTY TREATIES. These were treaties made between victorious invading kings (the "Great King") with the kings of cities they defeated, or their suzerains. The form of treaty is very old and is seen in its developed form in the treaties of the Hittite empire in the times of Abraham.
These treaties defined the rights and duties of the suzerain in the relationship. As such covenants are always LEGAL documents, defining the relationship in LEGAL terms. This is an important factor to remember.
In one sense the covenant was imposed on the conquered king, he had to comply or else, but there was always some sense of voluntary agreement.
In these covenants the kings always acted on behalf of their country. They, as the ruler, were the legitimate HEAD, or leader, of their people, so could make decisions for them. The people, or the BODY, were bound to obey the decisions of their CORPORATE HEAD. The corporate nature of covenant is an important factor to remember.
This model was adopted by
Biblical covenants follow the same literary form as the Suzerainty Treaties of ancient times.
Hence when God created Adam he also made a legal agreement with Adam, called a covenant.
This covenant is often called "The Covenant of Work".
Genesis 1-3.
The word "covenant" does not appear here, but there are enough of the elements of covenant present for us to be able to acknowledge it is the basic underlying idea here when we talk of Man's relationship to God.
Covenants are made with representative men, and all people under the headship of that man are bound by it. His acceptance, or rejection, of the covenant brought blessings, or curses, on the whole group. He is the covenant “head” and those under his headship are called the “Body”. The idea of corporate solidarity, wherein the group is seen to be a single individual was common in ancient societies.
The NT (in Romans 5; 1 Corinthians 15) clearly sees Adam as a representative man in this way. He is head of a corporate mankind, and we are all members of him.
Romans 5:12-21.
In this passage Paul clearly uses this idea - both Adam and Christ are representative men, corporate heads, and both, by their actions, bring blessing or cursing on their corporate bodies.
We have talked about this in terms of covenant language so far. Let us put this all into redemption language:
God, the Great King, gave Adam, his suzerain, two things in the covenant:
(1) Freedom.
Man was made in the image of God. Of all that God made only man was created to be free, like God, able to choose his own destiny.
(2) Property, an Inheritance.
This inheritance was made up of three elements:
(a) Priesthood: - Fellowship with God - God talked with man.
(b) Rulership of the Lower Creation - shown in operation in Genesis 2 where man names the animals, i.e. he determines their nature, character and destiny.
(c) Ownership of the earth and its resources.
The extent of man's inheritance and reign was as high as the birds could fly and as deep as the fish could swim.
Man was charged to "fill the earth and subdue it" i.e. bring it under his control.
This must surely mean control of the natural forces in operation in that sphere, the weather, and etc. Every living being, physical and spiritual, seen and unseen, was given to man to rule over.
These two elements, Freedom and Property, are the two things that Redemption is concerned with (Leviticus 25).
This control of Earth and man's freedom in that was wanted by Satan. He was jealous of man's kingship and freedom and sought to destroy it.
God knew this, and as the legal judge he put a price on the sale of Man's inheritance:
Genesis 2:16, 17:- Death.
Adam sold out to Satan.
Genesis 3.
Satan became the legal owner of earth and all its inhabitants, seen and unseen.
Luke 4:5-7.
Jesus here does not challenge Satan's claim to rulership of the earth at present - he knew Satan had made a legal purchase.
John 16:7-11.
Earth came under bondage, a bandage that it cannot be released from until its rightful owners take possession of it again.
Romans 8:20-22.
The "groaning" referred to here is the expression of the agony of bondage that the unseen spiritual forces who operate the natural world makes. These are the "elemental spirits" who have been unwittingly put under subjection to Satan.
Earth was sold, and therefore became subject to the law of Redemption. As far as God is concerned man is the rightful owner. He still acts as if that were so.
Mankind too, came under bondage.
Romans 5:17 - to death.
Galatians 4:3,8,9 - to the elemental spirits we were given to rule.
Hebrews 2:14 - the Devil.
This is the background to this chapter in REVELATION.
C) REVELATION CH5.
REV 5:1 Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals.
"Then I saw..." The vision enters a new phase.
"the right hand of him" - the right hand is the symbol of power and authority.
"a scroll, sealed..." - Thus indicating it was a scroll of Redemption. It is the title deed to earth and man's inheritance. It tells of the price of death. Hence only the "Lamb who has been slain" is "worthy to open it". As it is opened we see the price of death being outworked in human history. We see two groups of men; those who have accepted the Lamb's death on their behalf, and those who reject it, thus bringing death on themselves.
Literally = "a book", but in ancient times all writing was done on a papyrus or parchment scroll. John says this was written on both sides where normally they were only written on one side unless there was a shortage of writing material. The fullness of the writing here must therefore indicate that there is a vast amount of information contained therein.
The scroll appears to have two groups of information:
(i) That contained in the seals.
(ii) That which is written "within and without" (10:1, 2).
It may be that the scroll consists of seven pages, each one is sealed separately, and hence capable of being opened individually. Hence the information of the seal is the same as that written on the pages. We cannot be sure of what is meant.
"in the right hand" literally = "on..." God is not seen to be holding on to the scroll, rather he is freely offering it to whoever has the right to take it.
REV 5:2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, "Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?"
"strong angel" - probably an archangel.
It is possibly Gabriel as he has a lot to do with the revelation of hidden knowledge in the Bible. He instructed Daniel to "seal up" his visions so they could not be understood, so it would be fitting if he had the task of unsealing.
"who is worthy"? The setting is the highest law court in the universe, so this is a legal question. God is the judge, the angel is the court crier. The issue is "Who has the legal right to open the scroll?" Only one person has such a right and that is the Redeemer of the property defined in the scroll.
To be worthy the Redeemer had to be a descendent of Adam, a near kinsman, yet not be under the curse of Death that all Adam's seed inherit.
REV 5:3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.
"No one"
"in heaven" - the angels are not men.
"in earth" - All men are sinful.
"under the earth" - the demons are likewise fallen, and dead men cannot rise again.
REV 5:4 I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside.
"I wept much" - a noisy wailing, full of grief.
REV 5:5 Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals."
"the lion of the Tribe of
The future and final victory of the Messiah is simply an extension of the victory already obtained.
"a Lamb".
"seven eyes" - perfect knowledge and wisdom.
c/f 1 Corinthians 1:24.
REV 5:9 And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.
"worthy...for..." i.e. legally able to for the reason given.
"them... they" c/f note in Ch4.
The Translator of the KJV had no Greek manuscript of REVELATION available so they translated from the Latin Vulgate, which is known to be corrupted at points. One of the points is in this verse with the pronouns, translated here. "Them, they" which are translated in the KJV as "we, us". All Greek manuscripts now available read "Them, they", and this is clearly the correct rendering.
The faulty translation of the KJV has led to the elders being identified as redeemed men belonging to the Church and thus the Dispensational school has argued from this that the rapture must have already happened. This is clearly a wrong conclusion when we realise that the KJV was itself a mistranslation. The rendering of all modern translations, "They, them" indicates that the elders do not see themselves as being men but that men are something different to them.This legal scene is our introduction to the opening of the Seals and is crucial to our understanding of the nature of the Seals. It is too easy to lump the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls together and call them all judgments of God. But this is to miss the peculiar nature of each series and what they are about.
The Seals are revealed to us in the context of the Adamic covenant and the Doctrine of Redemption and so we are to understand them in this light. But there is one other law we also need to understand before we can fully comprehend the ,meaning of the Seals .
The Law of Sowing and Reaping.
Galatians 6:7, 8.
This is a law written into the fabric of the universe by God. It governs, in one form or another, all natural processes.
In Chemistry and Maths it reads, “All equations must balance.”
In Physics it says, “For every action there in an equal and opposite reaction.”
In Biology is says, “Each reproduces only after its own kind.”
In Horticulture it is the law of reaping and sowing and is a law of increase.
The point the Apostle Paul makes here is that this law operates in the moral realm as well and, in that context, it is a law of increase. What we put in is what we get out – only more of it. But as with any harvest the seed and the crop don’t actually look the same. A tomato seed looks quite different to a tomato plant with fruit. But because we know we planted a tomato seed we can recognise the connection between the seed and the plant giving the crop.
The law was placed there by God to bless us, to give increase for our labours. The problem is that the Law is not partial – it works on whatever you feed into it. If you put good into it you reap blessing. If you put evil into it you get destruction, or death.
This law is also written into the fabric of the universe. We cannot avoid it.
Now let us put it all together.
God gave Adam a covenant but Adam rebelled, thus disinheriting us from our inheritance. The sin of Adam has consequences down through the generations as Exodus 20:5 teaches. And like every crop of weeds with each generation it grows, the harvest of destruction is greater.
What we are about to witness with the opening of the Seals is the final manifestation and outworking of the curses of the broken covenant of Adam on the world brought about by the operation of the law of sowing and reaping working in conjunction with the curses of the covenant. In this sense the Seals are not a direct judgment of God – the world still awaits that, rather they are the consequences of the working of inviolable law in a covenant breaking world.
9 comments:
Seven SEALS, Seven TRUMPETS, Seven PLAGUES -
Bible prophecy speaks of Seal, Trumpet, and Plague events. Trumpet events FOLLOW Seal events, FOLLOWED BY Plague events.
There are SEVEN Seals (Re.8:1), SEVEN Trumpets (Re.8:2), and SEVEN Last Plagues (Re.15:1).
SEAL events have not yet concluded. Seal events must conclude before TRUMPET events begin. The Seven Trumpets are GIVEN to sound at the Seventh, and final, SEAL (Re.8:2, Re.8: 6).
The Seventh TRUMPET is the Last Trump (1 Cor.15:52, Re.10:7 below).
1 Cor.15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump (Re.10:7 below): for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed (1 Thess.4:16-17).
Re.10:7 But in the days of the voice of the SEVENTH (trumpet) angel, when he shall begin to sound the mystery of God (Eph.3:4, 9) should be finished (Dan.12:6-7) as he hath declared to the servants the prophets (Eph.3:3-10).
Six of the TRUMPETS must sound BEFORE the "last trump" sounds.
The “last trump” (1 Cor.10:52 above), the Seventh Trumpet (Re.10:7 above) is the “finish”.
Dan.12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the END of these wonders?
Dan.12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever (Re.10:6) that it shall be for a time, times, and an half (3 ½ years); and when he (the little horn - Dan.7:8) shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people (Dan.8:24, Re.11:3, Re.11:7), all these things shall be FINISHED (Re.10:7 above).
It is at the Seventh TRUMPET that we have the ascension (1 Thess.4:16-17 below).
1 Thess.4:16 For the Lord HIMSELF shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God (Re.10:7 above): and the dead in Christ shall rise first (1 Cor.15:52 above):
1 Thess.4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The Seven Last PLAGUES cannot fall until the Plagues are GIVEN to fall (Re.15:1-2, Re.15:6-8, Re.16:1). The Seven Last Plagues are given to fall AFTER the entire body of Christ are in heaven.
The Seven Last Plagues will fall directly AFTER the Seventh TRUMPET (1 Thess.4:16-17, 1 Cor.15:52, Re.10:7, Dan.12:6-7 above).
The Seventh TRUMPET ascension occurs AFTER the three and a half years of tribulation under the beasts of Revelation chapter 13.
There are seven-years between the Sixth SEAL (Re.6:12-17) and the Seventh TRUMPET.
Pat (ndbpsa ©) Bible Prophecy on the Web
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BibleProphecy
I'm not sure what your real point is, as I have already argued with proof that the 7th Seal, Trumpet and Bowl are the same event in our time, thus the sequential view that you seem to be espousing falls flat. Thus the Seal events need not have finished before the Trumpets begin, the three sequences in Revelation are concurrent in our time. As to the other points you make, I agree.
John
Chronology of Prophetic Events -
Trumpet events FOLLOW Seal events FOLLOWEDD BY Plague events.
Note that the appearance of the Lord with power and majesty (1 Thess.5:2-3, Acts 2:20-21, Lk.21:25-37, Isa.13:6-11, Jer.30:7, Joel 2:31-32, Re.6:12-17) is a (Sixth) SEAL event, not to be confused with the Seventh TRUMPET ascension (1 Thess.4:16-17), a separate event.
Note that at the Seventh, and final, SEAL (Re.8:1), seven TRUMPETS are GIVEN (Re.8:2), and seven angels PREPARE themselves to sound (Re.8:2, 6). The TRUMPET events cannot occur until the Trumpets are GIVEN at the Seventh, and final, SEAL.
Note that those who have gained the victory over the beast (Re.15:2) are in heaven when the Seven Last PLAGUES are GIVEN and poured out (Re.15:1, Re.15:6-8, Re.16:1). The Seventh TRUMPET ascension has taken place (1 Thess.4:16-17, 1 Cor.15:52, Re.10:7, Dan.12:7).
Patricia (ndbpsa ©) Bible Prophecy on the Web
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BibleProphecy
It seems to me that you are confusing two thing which are not necessarily the same, they are these:
(i) The sequence of events in heaven
(ii)The sequence of events on earth.
To assume that these are the same is a vast leap of faith and is to suggest somehow that God is defined by earth time sequence. For further comment on this point refer back to my notes as they appear. I think there are many things in Revelation that indicate the sequence you are demanding does not hold up.
I do not agree that Revelation chapter 5 (below) is the FULFILMENT of Daniel 7:13-14, below.
Daniel 7:12 declares that the rest of the beast (the first three of the four beasts) have their dominion taken away: yet their lives are prolonged for a season and time. These three of the four beasts will live to go into the Millennium for a season and a time. Then Daniel 7:13-14 speaks of Jesus receiving dominion, and glory, and a kingdom. The Millennium occurs directly after the battle of Armageddon; Jesus’ reigns throughout the Millennium, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him. During the Millennium Jesus will rule all nations with a rod of iron (Re.19:15, Re.12:5)
Daniel 7:12-14 -
Dan.7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
Dan.7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan.7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed.
Revelation chapter 5 -
Re.5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Re.5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Re.5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Re.5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Re.5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Re.5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Re.5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Re.5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Re.5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Re.5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Re.5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Re.5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Re.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Re.5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four [and] twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
Patricia (ndbpsa ©) Bible Prophecy on the Web
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BibleProphecy
The statement that "their lives are prolonged for a season and a time" does not, to me, suggest that they continue into the Millennium. Rather I understand it to mean that when their dominion is taken away the country still exists until the millennium. That is to say, when Persia ceased to be the ruling empire the country of Persia continued to exist, so too with Greece and Babylon (Iraq), so too with Rome (the first phase of the 4th beast).
The order of the verses you quoted from Daniel is significant and we are not at liberty to rearrange the order of verses in scripture to suit our own theories. The passage in Daniel 7 gives the following event sequence:
1. Babylon comes.
2. Then Medo Persia Comes
3. Then Greece Comes
4. Then Rome (the first phase of the 4th beast) comes.
Each of these empires as it was succeeded by the next had its dominion (i.e. its power to rule) taken away and this power was given to the following empire. But for each the country survived for a "time and season" (and still do and will until the Second Coming).
5. Then comes (after a time gap) the Revival of Rome in the 10 horned empire of Antichrist. To establish to whole 10 he has to "pluck up three horns".
6. Then comes Daniel 7 :13 - the coming of the Kingdom of God. When we compare Daniel 7 with Daniel 2 it is clear that the coming of Christ sweeps away the remaining traces of the humanistic empires (Dan 2 a stone (i.e. Christ) smashes the image to pieces and the stone grows into an kingdom that covers the whole earth).
The order of Gentile empires in Daniel 7 is thus confirmed by the order given in Daniel 2.
Thus the comparison of one scripture with another shows that the first 3 beasts of Daniel 7 do not go into the Millennium.
As to the point I made about Revelation 5 being the fulfillment of Daniel 7:13-14, note the following:
In the process of redemption as practiced in OT times there were two phases to the "liberation" or "redemption" of a lost inheritance.
1. The Legal claim being recognised. This is when to Redeemed would go to the town rulers and, in front of them. pay the redemption price. The title deed of the property would then be passed over to him and he was now legally owner of the redeemed property.
2. Then at some later stage the redeemer would actually go to the property and claim it. this is the situation we see in Jeremiah where he buys a field because he is the legal redeemer. But at a later time he tries to leave Jerusalem to visit the land he has redeemed - presumably to turn the legal claim into actual ownership. The city authorities took exception to him leaving the city and put him in chains.
My point, and I admit it may not have been as clear as it should have been, is that Revelation 5 corresponds to the first, legal phase of the process of redemption where he is given to title deed to earth and man. In this it corresponds to being "given the kingdom" by God. Of course, after this he must take possession of the kingdom in a real sense and we see this later on in Revelation, and we shall get there.
Thus Dan 7:13, to me, summarises both of these phases. You are indeed (at least partially)correct in challenging my statement - especially if you understand Dan 7:13 to mean only the second phase of redemption as discussed above.
We need to remember that the OT is not a complete revelation and often what appears to be one events, or a continuous sequence of events is actually several events with time gaps between them (in earth time).
We also need to remember that we are all fallible and no one expresses themselves perfectly all the time (least of all me) and this is where "Iron sharpens iron".
Thanks
Hope this answers your query.
Blessings on you.
John
Daniel chapter 2’s Kingdoms
The four kingdoms of Daniel 2:37-40 are NOT the four beasts/kings/kingdoms which will be upon the world scene at the feet and toes of the Daniel 2:31-36 image.
These four beasts/kings will all ascend from the bottomless pit together AT THE SAME TIME at the Fifth Trumpet, the first Woe. They will play their end-time role upon the world scene FROM the Fifth Trumpet THROUGH TO the battle of Armageddon and A SEASON AND TIME beyond the battle.
After the battle of Armageddon, the first three beasts/kings of the four beasts/kings (Dan.7:3, Dan.7:17) WILL HAVE THEIR LIVES PROLONGED for a season and time BEYOND the destruction of the fourth beast/king and the false prophet at the battle of Armageddon (Dan.7:11-12, Re.19:20).
The Great Image -
Dan.2:31 Thou, O king (Nebuchadnezzar), sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness [was] excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof [was] terrible.
Dan.2:32 This image's head [was] of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
Dan.2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
Dan.2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet [that were] of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
Dan.2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
Dan.2:36 This [is] the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
Interpretation of the Great Image -
NOTE: Nebuchadnezzar is favored of God (Dan.2:37-38 above). None of these kingdoms are referred to as beasts (Jude 1:10-11, Titus 1:12, 2 Pe.2:11-13 below)
Dan.2:37 Thou, O king (Nebuchadnezzar), [art] a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
Dan.2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he (God) given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou (Nebuchadnezzar) [art] this head of gold.
Dan.2:39 And AFTER thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
Dan.2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all [things]: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
The Feet and Toes of the Great Image -
Dan.2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
Dan.2:42 And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom (singular) shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
Dan.2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan.2:44 And in the days of these kings (toes - kingdoms) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Dan.2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream [is] certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
End-Time Role of the Four Beasts of Daniel chapter 7 -
NOTE: The four kings of Daniel chapter 7 (below) are described as four beasts (Jude 1:10-11, Titus 1:12, 2 Pe.2:11-13 below). These kings/beasts ascend from the bottomless pit/hell.
The four beasts of Daniel chapter 7 have an end-time role after the Sixth SEAL (Re.6:12-17).
The four beasts of Daniel chapter 7 are four kings who come up from the sea (Dan.7:3) arising out of the earth (Dan.7:17).
These four beasts/kings ascend from the bottomless pit once it has been opened at the Fifth TRUMPET, the First Woe (Re.9:1-2, 12). These four beasts/kings ascend out of the bottomless pit at the same time.
These four beasts/kings are "the transgressors" and are of a single nation with a plural kingdom (Dan.8:22-23). AFTER the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up (Dan.8:23). He is the little horn (Dan.7:8), the false prophet. He also ascends from the bottomless pit (Re.11:7, Re.17:8, Isa.38:18, Ps.28:1).
The fourth beast of Daniel chapter 7 is seen in the book of Revelation as the beast of Revelation 13:1.
The little horn/false prophet is seen in the book of Revelation as the beast of Revelation 13:11, and he is also seen as the scarlet-colored beast once he sits in the temple of God showing himself that he is God (2 Thess.2:4).
The ten horns on the scarlet-colored beast’s head (Re.17:3) will have power as kings for ONE HOUR with the scarlet-colored beast (Re.17:12), one hour before the battle of Armageddon is fought (Re.19:11-21).
After the battle of Armageddon, the first three beasts/kings of the four beasts/kings (Dan.7:3, Dan.7:17) will have their lives prolonged for a season and time beyond the destruction of the fourth beast/king and the false prophet at the battle of Armageddon (Dan.7:11-12, Re.19:20).
The spiritual opening of the bottomless pit (Re.9:1-2, Isa.38:18, Ps.28:1) is in the Dead Sea. The Dead Sea is outside of Jerusalem, and will be outside of that great city, the holy Jerusalem (Re.21:10) in the new earth. In the new earth there is no more sea (Re.21:1). In the new earth, all those who have transgressed against God will be looked upon (Isa.66:24, Re.14:10)
Beasts -
Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain (1 Jn.3:12, Matt.13:38), and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
2 Pe. 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2 Pe.2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2 Pe.2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
Patricia (ndbpsa ©) Bible Prophecy on the Web
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BibleProphecy
Hi Patricia,
You make a lot of assertions which are nothing but your own opinions - or so it seem to me. Actual proof for these opinions seems to be lacking so far.
Most of what you have covered in this last comment relates to parts of REVELATION that I have not got to yet in this blog so I don't want to engage in debate on the meaning until I get to them. Also I don't want to engage at this point in time on the prophecies of Daniel.
Suffice to say that I do not agree with all you say. The interpretation of Daniel's visions that I hold to is summarised nicely in the NIV study bible. To me it makes the most sense of the evidence - which I will cover at the appropriate time, but I do not want to be dragged into debating it now when it is largely irrelevant to the text under consideration.
About Revelation 5 and the comment at the beginning of my notes on this chapter which you objected to:
This comment was not original with me. I derived it from some commentary or other, whose I don't know now. I have read about 50 commentaries on REVELATION and many other books so it is hard to remember who said what. At the time it seemed right to me, and I reflected that view back to you today in the comment I posted this morning.
However since then I have had a lovely lazy time lying in the sun on the beach, a swim and a time of musing on our discussion. It does seem to me now that Dan 7:13,14 really relates to the second stage of redemption as I outlined it this morning, not to the first. So thank you for causing me to consider the text more deeply.
I will not change the text of my blog but I have noted in the text that any future readers should look at our discussion. If I were to change the text of the blog then our discussion would seem irrelevant to future readers and they would wonder what we were on about. I hope also that, by leaving the blog text as is and coming to a different position through discussion, it will encourage others to raise questions for healthy debate.
No one knows it all. 1 Cor 13:12 "now we know in part".
John
Yes, I agree. I believe open discussion brings us to truth through the Holy Spirit.
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